Problem att flasha om KK Kort!?

[Tokaz]

Tror att P funkar så att hur aggresiv maskinen ska vara och när du har hittat ett värde som du tycker är bra kan du vrida lite på I för att den ska gå mjukare. Inte helt säker. Jag ska testa lite nu ute och se hur den funkar.

subtrim är dom där små knapparna som sitter runt på sändaren. och expo är att ställa in känsligheten runt mitt sticka. Så jag ställde in 30% på min och då blir den mkt lungnare när man ger inputt med spakarna. Fredde

[rfnoise]

Tjena, jag hittade detta angående PID tuning:

"PID tuning theory and configuration guide for MultiRotorCraft

(CAVEAT- this is STILL under construction - feedback is wanted / needed)


Proportional-Integral-Derivative


When the MultiRotor orientation is changed in any pitch/roll/yaw axis, the gyros indicate an angular change from it's initial position.
The MultiRotor controller records the original position and by utilising a "PID" program loop, drives the motors to attempts to return the MultiRotor to its initial position.
This is done my a combination of the measured angular deviation, sampling the change over time and predicting the future position. This provides enough information for the controller to drive the motors to return equilibrium.


P is the dominant part of PID and gets you in the ballpark for good flight characteristics.




Basic PID Tuning - on the ground


Set PID to the designers default recommended settings
Hold the MulitiRotor securely and safely in the air
Increase throttle to the hover point where it starts to feel light
Try to lean the MultiRotor down onto each motor axis
You should feel a reaction against your pressure for each axis.
Change P until it is difficult to move against the reaction. Without stabilisation you will feel it allow you to move over a period of time. That is OK
Now try rocking the MultiRotor. Increase P until it starts to oscillate and then reduce a touch.
Rrepeat for Yaw Axis.


Your settings should now be suitable for flight tuning.




Advanced Tuning - understanding impact of P, I and D


P - this is the amount of corrective force applied to return the MultiRotor back to its initial position.
The amount of force is proportional to a combination of the the deviation from initial position minus any command to change direction from the controller input.
A higher P value will create a stronger force to resist any attempts to change it's position.
If the P value is too high, on the return to initial position, it will overshoot and then opposite force is needed to compensate. This creates an oscillating effect until stability is eventually reached or in severe cases becomes completely destabilised.


Increasing value for P:
It will become more solid/stable until P is too high where it starts to oscillate and loose control
You will notice a very strong resistive force to any attempts to move the MultiRotor


Decreasing value for P:
It will start to drift in control until P is too low when it becomes very unstable.
Will be less resistive to any attempts to change orientation


Aerobatic flight: Requires a slightly higher P
Gentle smooth flight: requires a slightly lower lower P




I - this is the time period for which the angular change is sampled and averaged.
The amount of force applied to return to initial position gets is increased the longer the deviation exists until a maximum force value is reached
A higher I will increase the heading hold capability


Increasing value for I:
Increase the ability to hold overall initial position and reduce drift, but also increase the delay in returning to initial position
Will also decrease the importance of P.


Decreasing value for I:
Will improve reaction to changes, but increase drift and reduce ability to hold position
Will also increase the importance of P.


Aerobatic flight: Requires a slightly lower I
Gentle smooth flight: Requires a slightly higher I




D - this is the speed at which the MultiRotor is returned to its original position.
A higher D (as it is negative value this means a lower number - i.e. closer to zero) will mean the MultiRotor wil snap back to its initial position very quickly


Increasing value for D: (remember, that means a LOWER number as it is a negative value)
Improves the speed at which deviations are recovered
With fast recovery speed comes a higher probability of overshooting and oscillations
Will also increase the effect of P


Decreasing value for D: (remember, that means a HIGHER number as it is a negative value - i.e. further from zero)
Reduces the oscillations when returning any deviations to their initial position
Recovery to initial position becomes slower
Will also decrease the effect of P


Aerobatic flight: Increase D (remember, that means a LOWER number as it is a negative value - i.e. closer to zero)
Gentle smooth flight: Decrease D (remember, that means a HIGHER number as it is a negative value - i.e. further from zero)




Advanced Tuning - practical implementation


(at this moment - these are proposals only!)


For Aerobatic flying:
Increase value for P until oscillations start, then back of slightly
Change value for I until until hover drift is unacceptable, then increase slightly
Increase value for D (remember, that means a LOWER number as it is a negative value - i.e. closer to zero) until recovery from dramatic control changes results in unacceptable recovery oscillations
P may now have to be reduced slightly


For stable flying (RC):
Increase value for P until oscillations start, then back of slightly
Change value for I until recovery from deviations is unacceptable, then increase slightly
Decrease value for D (remember, that means a HIGHER number as it is a negative value - i.e. further from zero) until recovery from dramatic control changes becomes too slow. Then Increase D slightly (remember - lower number!)
P may now have to be reduced slightly




For stable flying ( AP / FPV):
Increase value for P until oscillations start, then back of slightly
Change value for I until recovery from deviations is unacceptable, then increase slightly
Decrease value for D (remember, that means a HIGHER number as it is a negative value - i.e. further from zero) until recovery from dramatic control changes becomes too slow. Then Increase D slightly (remember - lower number!)
P may now have to be reduced slightly


You will have to accept a compromise of optimal settings for stable hover and your typical mode of flying. Obviously factor it towards your most common style.




Other factors affecting PID
Taking known good PID values from an identical configuration will get you close, but bear in mind no two MultiRotors will have the same flying characteristics and the following items will have an impact on actual PID values:


Frame weight /size / material / stiffness
Motors - power / torque /momentum
Position - Motor-->motor distance
ESC / TX - power curves
Prop - diameter / pitch / material
BALANCING
Pilot skills


References
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller"

Mvh,
Calle

[Tokaz]

Intressant läsning där Calle.

Ska kollas in närmare. Jag har iaf flugit 2 accar med min idag. Höjde mitten potten en aning sen flög den hur fint som helst. Nää nu ska fpv grejjerna på sen jäklar. Men jag är himla sugen på en flyduspider Ska bli skoj o läsa om Tragi:s Gott nytt år på er alla. Fredde

[Lidén]

Oj oj här har tråden växt! Har inte varit inne på ett tag visst...

Flashningen löste sig, visade sig vara trrottel range kalibreringen som ballade ur och ställde till ekymmer för mig, gjorde detta individuellt o sen funkade det hux flyx, men oj vad jag slet mitt hår... Precis som jag gjorde igår.... Har en ny tri på G och blåste i xx 2.5, men fick ju inte reverseringen på gyra yaw att funka... suck vad jag håll på, tills jag sent om cider börja kolla lite på nätet o manual o såg att man skulle buta servot från åin4 till pin 5, där låg reverseringen...

Vad kör ni för version i era tri!? Har inte riktigt kopplat greppet om vad det är som gäller, kapten k senaste som verkar vara 1.6 eller xx 2.5, vilken är stabilast o bäst tro? På alla sidor pratas det mest om förbättringar i quadprogramvaran...

Och agerar potarna som PI eller som separat R/P/Y på 2.5??

Hade allihopa, idag skall det Tri fpv:as!

/Martin

[Sjuntorparn]

.....har precis fått ihop en spiderquad från http://www.blueskyrc.com/index.php?m...17e75e20758e73

Gjorde maiden i helgen som var lyckad... var grymt nöjd med den stabiliteten. 10.30min på 3c 2650Mha
kommer lite om den om nån dag.. o då är den fpv utrustad..

Ursäkta..nu bar det iväg från trådämnet..,men blev så glad när du fått sprutt på din ..
hoppas vi ses på nåt meeting framöver..

//Patrik.

Ja, det spårade ur lite men jag hakar gärna på det spåret, du får gärna delge oss dina erfarenheter av din spiderquad, ser gôtt "smutt" ut! Är det bara en synvilla som bilderna ger eller är den lite lättare att urskilja "fram" och "bak" på den quaden när man flyger visuellt med den (själv tycker jag det är hopplöst på svårt att urskilja läget i luften på en traditionell quadcopter när man flyger "på lite håll")

mvh Grefen

[tragi702]

Tjena Grefen..Saknade dig i Degerfors :(..
Precis som du skriver så är det mycke lättare o se fram o bak på den pga den assymetriska designen.
har flugit den en hel del nu (mest fpv) o kan konstatera att den flyger stadigare än någon annan KK kort maskin vi testat!!

Och vi tror vi hittat länken till varför?!..

Men det kommer till veckan i en egen tråd om spidern
så håll ut en stund.. meeen om du inte köpt motorer än?,vänta lite?!.

Mvh //Patrik.

[Sjuntorparn]

Tjena Grefen..Saknade dig i Degerfors :(..

.......

Men det kommer till veckan i en egen tråd om spidern
så håll ut en stund.. meeen om du inte köpt motorer än?,vänta lite?!.

Mvh //Patrik.

OK, då slår jag mig ner med popcornen och väntar samt sittet med fingret spänt på "köpa-knappen", vill ju inte trycka fel i hastigheten!


mvh Grefen

PS. Jag saknade mig själv i Degerfors, fick prioritera husrenovering denna gång, kommer igen - kanske vi ses i Skövde den 3:e mars? Hobbymarknad du vet....